1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

CDNMace
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1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by CDNMace » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:23 pm

Was thrilled to simply get an any-condition Crosslet 4 today. Didn't have time to take a closer look until about an hour ago; at which point I noticed something 'odd'. Low and behold... CENTS stamped inverted, and an inverted 8 over the 5 on the same side.

Happy camper. :D

(Also an EF 1909 5 Cents with a very nice cud. Will post that one later).

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verdigris
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by verdigris » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:03 pm

CDNMace wrote:Was thrilled to simply get an any-condition Crosslet 4 today.


Join the club! I only just picked one up last month-- in somewhat similar grade from what I'm seeing of yours. I right away looked if I'd won the lottery too!? Nope... mine says try again :wink:

Nice find ace.
Cheers

CDNMace
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Location: Michigan, USA

Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by CDNMace » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:02 am

verdigris wrote:
CDNMace wrote:Was thrilled to simply get an any-condition Crosslet 4 today.


Join the club! I only just picked one up last month-- in somewhat similar grade from what I'm seeing of yours. I right away looked if I'd won the lottery too!? Nope... mine says try again :wink:

Nice find ace.
Cheers


Cheers, thanks! My hands still get a little shaky when I pick it up. It's leaving for a little trip to NGC on Friday morning.

I've never seen or even heard of one with this error before (which isn't saying much), but I can't locate anything about it, anywhere. Called up to a shop in London, ON... they hadn't either.

Pretty stoked.

Steve

verdigris
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by verdigris » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:51 am

I took your bottom photo into Photoshop and flipped/rotated the image to match the mirrored impression on your coin. Then after adjusting the contrast and such I faded out that layer back and forth to see where everything should fall. Aligning it was actually quite easy and immediately I see that the bottom knob of the mirrored S is in the centre of the C, as well as recognising the point of the 7 lying between the top of the 1 & 8. There are probably several points of contact that are there but I'm limited by the image to be certain of what's an impression and what's not.

Cheers

CDNMace
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by CDNMace » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:01 am

verdigris wrote:I took your bottom photo into Photoshop and flipped/rotated the image to match the mirrored impression on your coin.


That's really cool! Would you be able to post a picture of that, I'd love to see it. I'm not sure what the grade of this one will be, but I'm sending it to NGC for the error confirmation. I stayed up last night until about 3:30am trying everything I could think of to see if another existed. Nothing as of yet. It'd sure be nice to finally have a true one-of-a-kind in my collection. Not certain what a value would be, but I think it may have just gone a little higher than the dollar I paid for it here in Metro-Detroit? Ha-ha.

Still very excited. This find has even sparked some interest in Canadian coins in at least two American collector, personal friends. So that, to me, is a win too.

CDNMace
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by CDNMace » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:45 am

If anyone knows of another one of these existing, please, if you could, point me in the direction as to where I can locate the information.

Thanks a lot,

Steve

Bill in Burl
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by Bill in Burl » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:40 pm

I have a little info for you Mace, but I need permission to quote it on here. I'll try to post it tomorrow. There's a group of us that are on a private site, but nothing from there can be put anywhere else without an OK.
Bill in Burl

CDNMace
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by CDNMace » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:32 pm

Bill in Burl wrote:I have a little info for you Mace, but I need permission to quote it on here. I'll try to post it tomorrow. There's a group of us that are on a private site, but nothing from there can be put anywhere else without an OK.


Thanks Bill. I called up to London today to my 'first' coin shop; and they asked me to send them what pictures I have. No one there had ever heard of it. Will likely hear back from them tomorrow. Of course, everyone wants to make a new discovery, etc.; but if you have info, I have an inkling I may not be alone in this. Hope it's good news. haha

Thanks again.

Shylo
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by Shylo » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:42 pm

Looks like with this coin you may have just got an invite into a league of extraordinary numis....

:D


sweet coin! please post more pictures... if/when possible.....

CDNMace
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by CDNMace » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:57 pm

Shylo wrote:Looks like with this coin you may have just got an invite into a league of extraordinary numis....

:D


sweet coin! please post more pictures... if/when possible.....


Haha. Thanks, Shylo. It's been a pretty exciting last few days. I am trying to improve my loupe/Smartphone combo skills. lol

Bill in Burl
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by Bill in Burl » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:26 pm

Mace .... This is what I got from the 5 cent guru. The other person who is the expert on 5 cent silvers is Brian Cornwell, who owns ICCS ... the 5 cent silvers were his babies and he had an outstanding collection (probably still does). Anyway, here is what I got from a long-time collector of the fishscales:

"Bill - from what I can tell, this is a double strike as the owner states. The chances of any more of them showing up is pretty remote. I think Canadian Coin and Currency has a double struck example that they want many thousands for. The chances of another 74H is pretty much as likely as any other date from my experience. (That is of course not including the modern examples such as the 1967-70 examples.)"

It's not much but he says he's never seen one and knows of no others he has personally seen. You have a keeper.
Bill in Burl

CDNMace
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by CDNMace » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:58 pm

Bill in Burl wrote:Mace .... This is what I got from the 5 cent guru. The other person who is the expert on 5 cent silvers is Brian Cornwell, who owns ICCS ... the 5 cent silvers were his babies and he had an outstanding collection (probably still does). Anyway, here is what I got from a long-time collector of the fishscales:

"Bill - from what I can tell, this is a double strike as the owner states. The chances of any more of them showing up is pretty remote. I think Canadian Coin and Currency has a double struck example that they want many thousands for. The chances of another 74H is pretty much as likely as any other date from my experience. (That is of course not including the modern examples such as the 1967-70 examples.)"

It's not much but he says he's never seen one and knows of no others he has personally seen. You have a keeper.


Wow... thank you, Bill! I'm seriously just speechless at this point. Thank you for all of your help on a regular basis; but thank you for investigating this for me. I'm literally numb.

CDNMace
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by CDNMace » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:45 pm

Now one is left with the question(s): What do I do about sending it to NGC?...

If it's not a known error, being first and foremost; what will they do with it? Second, with its condition, do I have it graded along with the error designation? Now to find 4 other World coins of the designated time period to send in with it (hate that rule).

Decisions, decisions??

Bill, then this isn't a new discovery, per se, correct?

Bill in Burl
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by Bill in Burl » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:38 pm

There are many type errors that are one of a kind...... it's varieties that there have to be any 'number-of' to get certified. Jeff didn't know what year/date the other coin similar to it actually was.... he was explaining that it probably IS a one-of-a-kind. If you were in Canada, I'd say send it to CCCS, who certify more type varieties and errors than any other TPG. It will cost a pretty penny to have a "one-of" coin certified in a hard slab. I would send it to NGC (or any other TPG) with the proviso that if they won't certify the 'double-struck', then don't certify it at all and send it back ... you don't want to spend nearly $100 to have an F 5 cent silver put in a slab. Or, you can just put it in a 2X2 and write what you've learned about. You know what it is and an experienced eror collector will know as well .. why get anyone else's opinion on what it is. You are just paying for an opinion, cardboard and plastic
Bill in Burl

CDNMace
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Re: 1874 H Crosslet-4 5 Cents: Double stamped, inverted.

Post by CDNMace » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:58 pm

Per the request for more pictures...

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