Obverse Test - Which One is It???

mkb · Post by **mkb** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:36 am

Here's a test for the 5c collectors. Below are images of two different 5c Victorian coins. The images are of uncirculated coins to make ID'ing them easier. Worn coins of course present a much bigger challenge. Your test: Determine if one or two different obverses present, and which one(s) is it. Let us know your thoughts on this, and how you arrived at them.

dave62 · Post by **dave62** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:28 pm

If I guess, do I get the coins, or even 1 of them? I'll say from a very inexperienced collector, 1870 wide and narrow rim 5 cent piece. :shock:

mkb · Post by **mkb** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:26 pm

dave62,

Giving the coins away is not possible as I don't have them. But you do get an A for effort. And your guess is a fairly decent one. Any thoughts on what the Obverses are?

TBH · Post by **TBH** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:02 pm

I'm not a 5 cent collector but I see two different portraits.In the first portrait the vertical band of hair to the left of the ear appears to run behind the horizontal band of hair.In the second one the vertical band appears to flow into the horizontal band at the top.

zonad · Post by **zonad** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:07 am

Top one is obverse 2, bottom is obverse 1.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:49 am

Randy, besides the hair braid, what markers do you look for?

I was pretty sure that the second one was Obv 1 but the top one wasn't so easy.

zonad · Post by **zonad** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:21 pm

Kevin, I look at the top lip. real curved is #2, straighter would be a #5. Also look at where the top of the bun is attached to the head. The #1 is V shaped and the others are more of a right angle. These are tough to distinguish and I may be 100% wrong.

mkb · Post by **mkb** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:44 pm

"These are tough to distinguish"

You are right - these are tough to distinguish. Very tough.

"and I may be 100% wrong"

Nope. You are actually 100% right! Congradulations!!!! Well done.

The first (or top) obverse comes from (if I remember right) a 1900 dated 5c coin, and the second (or bottom) obverse comes from an 1858 dated 5c coins. dave62 was correct in noting that it is a wide rim variety, which also appeared in 1870. The obverse of an 1858 5c coin was chosen since there could be no mistake that it is an obverse 1. The obverse of a 1900 5c coin was chosen since all the coins in that year (plus nearby years) are all obverse 2.

If you look closely at the top of the head where the hairline meets the forehead, the Obverse 1 has a lower hairline compared to the Obverse 1. But this marker is good for only EF40 and above coins; possibly as low as VF30. Once it wears off, which is easy to do, it no longer is a factor.

I have to wonder though: if all it takes to define a unique obverse are such subtle differences, then would not the tiny lock of hair that sticks out at the back of the head (about midway between the neck and the bun) - present on some coins but missing on others - also be enough to defines a unique obverse? Any thoughts on this?

zonad · Post by **zonad** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:53 pm

At least it could be a 2a or 2b. What years? There is an early 2 marker also noted by Haxby. Scratch at the top near where the bun attaches to head which made me suspect your coin above was a late stage #2 because it's not there. Perhaps when the scratch is removed the button of hair changes also?

mkb · Post by **mkb** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:38 am

I have two 1885's with the missing lock (or tuft) of hair. One of the coins grades about an F12 or so, and it is is convincing, the other grades about a G4 and is a bit questionable because of the amount of wear. I will recheck all my Victorian coins again to see if I can find others.

Adrenalyne · Post by **Adrenalyne** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:50 pm

I can see 3 points of interest.
The first is the tip of the nose, on the first picture the nose is more rounded, on the second picture it seems more pointed.
The second point is the junction of the chin and throat. The first figure is like a rounded junction and the second figure, the junction is more pronounced.
Finally, we can take a look on the bust, at the left tip. On the first photo, the tip is rounded and the second it's pointed.

Those are my comments.

mkb · Post by **mkb** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:08 am

Excellant observations Adrenalyne. Its odd how easy they are to notice when you know where to look, and how difficult they are to spot when you don't know where to look.