Does PGCS grade Canadian varieties?

General discussions about conservation and classification.
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dir
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:41 pm

Does PGCS grade Canadian varieties?

Post by dir » Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:48 pm

I would like a variety I own (1965 1 cent) to be hard slabbed and attractive to some US collectors that primarily only consider PGCS-graded and slabbed coins. (That’s the reality I’m working within in this situation).

Looking on the PGCS website they appear to only grade a very specific set of varieties, all of them US coins.

The CCCS site appears to do hard slabs although it says “coming soon”, and their submission pdf form has a tick box for hard slabs. So who knows.

Regarding CCCS grading varieties, they state,

“ The varieties that CCCS recognize are the one listed in "Trends", the one listed in the Charlton catalogue and a few of the recognized unlisted ones.”

I searched their website but found no mention of “Trends”. I don’t know if my variety appears in Charlton but it does appear on this coinsandcanada website (1965 1 cent dot, BU). I think I posted photos in here a year or two ago.

So it’s all a bit ambiguous to me. I don’t want to pay for grading that won’t result in a hard slab with the variety identified. Ideally I want to use PGCS but if they absolutely don’t do this service or won’t recognize the variety, then I need to know who else can do it. There doesn’t appear to be strong support for ICCS so I’m hoping to get some advice here.

troubadour
Posts: 385
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Re: Does PGCS grade Canadian varieties?

Post by troubadour » Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:26 am

I don't know about any 1965 dot penny. Dots are considered errors 99% of the time. Not varieties.

Jim J
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Re: Does PGCS grade Canadian varieties?

Post by Jim J » Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:27 am

I don't think any grading Company would grade it as a dot coin only the grade and type for 1965 Canadian cent pointed 5 / blunt 5 and small beads or large beads

Bill in Burl
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am
Location: Golden Horseshoe, ONT

Re: Does PGCS grade Canadian varieties?

Post by Bill in Burl » Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:51 pm

If CaC listed your coin as a "dot", they are in error. All of the photos in the "variety" section of their site are just submissions from individual collectors who can name it what they want. The moderators or owners of the site do little or no checking on the validity of what is submitted. It is just put on the site with no verification. Almost every single "dot" coin I've seen on there are just the result of a die chip or die rust spot that can be anywhere on the coin. They are NOT varieties or even "dots" and most aren't even considered errors. They are just "damage. The only recognized dots are those put there by the mintmaster himself, either because of a new monarch or design element on dies before any new dies are made with the changes necessary. If you have a die chip, don't waste your money on a cert to try to get it to say that. Any "variety" that you want on a slab will cost you extra dollars, sometimes quite a bit. Post a photo of your coin coin and someone will tell you what you have and any value. DO NOT take the info on the CaC as the God's truth. Just use it as an easy reference for quick info and just one of the many inputs that you need to verify a coin. BTW, Trends is the 4-5 page insert into Canadian Coin News that comes out bi-weekly I think. They usually only list items that are in Charlton Vol 1. Prices very seldom change from month to month. Unless the coin that you have is actually worth (what you can sell it for) at least $150, the cost to certify it may be more than the coin will ever be worth, regardless the grade/condition.
Bill in Burl

troubadour
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Re: Does PGCS grade Canadian varieties?

Post by troubadour » Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:06 am

whats wrong listing an error that gets a +value when sold at auction or on ebay? if you only collect varieties it can be confusing but if you are in that field you should be able to differentiate them

Bill in Burl
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Location: Golden Horseshoe, ONT

Re: Does PGCS grade Canadian varieties?

Post by Bill in Burl » Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:15 am

PCGS certifies hundreds of Canadian varieties and errors. I can think of at least 40 just in Vicky large cents. If an error or variety has been formally recognized and/or published, then they will certify it, but at a substantial cost. Just look at the registry sets for different Canadian denomination or series at the number of varieties that need to be included to even get a ranking. Being placed in CaC's "variety" section doesn't make it a "recognized" error. I have friends who have had their errors or varieties certified by sending the written publication or verification with the coin submission. I'm not saying that getting an error or variety certified is not an option. You can get it done by providing proof and the CaC section is not proof ... they are just submissions by readers/members of the site who submit photos and call or name it what they want. From a cost point of view, a coin has to have substantial value before laying out the bucks to have it listed on the slab or plastic.

And, finally, a die chip or rust spot is NOT a "dot".
Bill in Burl

dir
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Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:41 pm

Re: Does PGCS grade Canadian varieties?

Post by dir » Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:01 pm

Well I’m fairly confused by the myriad of answers coming from all sorts of directions.

I didn’t find any way to edit my original post but my coin is actually a 1964 dot. This is very much discussed here on this website and there’s numerous examples of the coin being sold on ebay. Obviously I don’t use eBay as a value indicator but it at least demonstrates that this is a well known “aberration”. I don’t know if it’s a variety or error or whatever the correct technical term is. But mine is definitely in far better condition than any that I’ve seen so far. I acquired it over 50 years ago and it’s been kept sealed and in at least BU condition ever since and still looks great.

Though there appear to be a few fairly negative comments in this thread, based on the other discussions (mostly
DABBBD21-A71E-4031-9261-5990A3881FBF.jpeg
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in French) in here, and the ones being sold elsewhere, I’m still leaning towards it being worth enough to warrant getting it certified.

I found the previous post I made but discovered that it’s on a different website: https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/top ... _ID=350833
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john1000
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:01 am

Re: Does PGCS grade Canadian varieties?

Post by john1000 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:30 pm

PCGS will cost at least a 100.00 CA or more due to shipping fees and probably not certify this coin, your best bet would be going through a PCGS Canadian dealer. This is one of those coin hard to sell ungraded, but grading of 100 bucks seems to defeat the purpose. If the coin is worth 200 to 300 the best option maybe a soft flip from CCCS so good luck !

SPP-Ottawa
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:55 am

Re: Does PGCS grade Canadian varieties?

Post by SPP-Ottawa » Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:31 pm

dir wrote:
Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:01 pm
Well I’m fairly confused by the myriad of answers coming from all sorts of directions.

I didn’t find any way to edit my original post but my coin is actually a 1964 dot. This is very much discussed here on this website and there’s numerous examples of the coin being sold on ebay. Obviously I don’t use eBay as a value indicator but it at least demonstrates that this is a well known “aberration”. I don’t know if it’s a variety or error or whatever the correct technical term is. But mine is definitely in far better condition than any that I’ve seen so far. I acquired it over 50 years ago and it’s been kept sealed and in at least BU condition ever since and still looks great.

Though there appear to be a few fairly negative comments in this thread, based on the other discussions (mostlyDABBBD21-A71E-4031-9261-5990A3881FBF.jpeg in French) in here, and the ones being sold elsewhere, I’m still leaning towards it being worth enough to warrant getting it certified.
That is a well-known die chip variant, Zoell B88q. CCCS is the only grading company that I know, that will attribute your coin as a "Zoell B88q dot cent". For some reason, Canadian collectors like die chips that are serendipitously adjacent to dates, and thus there is a premium for better examples of this type.

SPP-Ottawa
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:55 am

Re: Does PGCS grade Canadian varieties?

Post by SPP-Ottawa » Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:32 pm

SPP-Ottawa wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:31 pm
dir wrote:
Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:01 pm
Well I’m fairly confused by the myriad of answers coming from all sorts of directions.

I didn’t find any way to edit my original post but my coin is actually a 1964 dot. This is very much discussed here on this website and there’s numerous examples of the coin being sold on ebay. Obviously I don’t use eBay as a value indicator but it at least demonstrates that this is a well known “aberration”. I don’t know if it’s a variety or error or whatever the correct technical term is. But mine is definitely in far better condition than any that I’ve seen so far. I acquired it over 50 years ago and it’s been kept sealed and in at least BU condition ever since and still looks great.

Though there appear to be a few fairly negative comments in this thread, based on the other discussions in here, and the ones being sold elsewhere, I’m still leaning towards it being worth enough to warrant getting it certified.
That is a well-known die chip variant, Zoell B88q. CCCS is the only grading company that I know, that will attribute your coin as a "Zoell B88q dot cent". For some reason, Canadian collectors like die chips that are serendipitously adjacent to dates, and thus there is a premium for better examples of this type.

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