New 1891 C3a LD

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rjd65
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:09 am

New 1891 C3a LD

Post by rjd65 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:01 am

For those interested. Recently while conducting research on Victorian Cents I came across this 1891 C3a LD (see attached PDF). For those that are familiar with Rob Turner's seminal work ' Dies and Diadems' , there is an 1891 Die Study included (Chapter 11). In this study, he found 32 (of 38 consumed/produced) obverse dies and 35 (of 44 consumed/produced) reveres dies used to mint all varieties of the very interesting 1891 mintage. This additional discovery now brings the total confirmed dies to 33 obverse and 36 reverse. Unfortunately, the images are not as crisp and I didn't have the coin to in hand to take better images I had to work with what I had. Fortunately, Rob, in his original work suspected that addition dies would turn up eventually and made allowance through placeholders. For now, I have designated it an O2X, but it may in fact be an O2W - time will tell I suppose. The fascinating part of this cent is the obvious use of the 'PEI T punch' for the T in VICTORIA. For those that have a copy of the aforementioned book, the attachment can be printed and inserted in the appropriate locations within the book. Any new die marriages discovered probably minted a relatively small portion of the original mintage which is effectively stated in the attachment. Cheers, RD
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1891 O2X-L4.R1O-L38.pdf
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Bill in Burl
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am
Location: Golden Horseshoe, ONT

Re: New 1891 C3a LD

Post by Bill in Burl » Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:22 pm

Good news, but a little late. BTW, your new "discovery" was sent to the Dies nad Diadems author in 2021 and then he submitted an article to the CNA that was pushed a year ago in their CNJ. Sorry to deflate your discovery verbiage and the correction to D & D has already been done. Do you have permission to use his numbering system?
Bill in Burl

rjd65
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:09 am

Re: New 1891 C3a LD

Post by rjd65 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:17 pm

Well, I sent this to Rob about 4 weeks ago and haven't received a response yet. Which isn't surprising, he can take months to respond. I am happy someone else also discovered it, as it shows others are watching out - more eyes the better. From my perspective, it was a new discovery since I do not have access to the CNA journals. I only have membership with the CPMS. Hopefully someone, perhaps even Rob, will enlighten me on what die designations were assigned so I can update my catalog, since I am unlikely to see the CNA article any time soon.

I wonder if Rob ever submitted an article to CNA re the 1892 C3a, temporarily designated O2X-T3/R1T-A5, discovered in 2018. He did respond to that eventually and confirmed he hadn't seen it before. I now have two of those in my possession and have seen just one on-line example, so that die marriage is it is probably not too rare.

As for your comment; "do you have permission to use his numbering system" on page 199 of 'Dies and Diadem', Rob clearly states; "It is my sincere hope that other researchers will follow suit and catalog the remaining Victorian years using the numbering system proposed in this book". So to answer your question, yes, I believe I do have permission, and so does anyone else.

Anyway, thanks so much for clearing that up Bill. Its pleasant to have the most accurate and update information available, isn't it? That's why I appreciate sites like this.

Cheers, RD

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