Can't understand sale price - 1954 modified $5

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ewsmith
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Can't understand sale price - 1954 modified $5

Post by ewsmith » Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:36 pm

I would be interested in getting some opinions on why this bill may have sold for so much - is it something special or did someone pay way too much?

It was for sale in a local online auction. I went to see it and I had planned to bid on it. It is ungraded. I would say it is in uncirculated condition but I couldn't say where on that scale.

I was assuming the value to be about $40 to $50. Including commission it sold for $880 - with tax $1012.
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CanuckCoinGirl
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Re: Can't understand sale price - 1954 modified $5

Post by CanuckCoinGirl » Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:46 pm

wow... it is pretty, but that seems very excessive for that particular bill. That said, news reports on the bills that might go up (talking to auction houses and not dealers or collectors) were the 1954, and specifically the Devil's Face ones. If you were aiming to bid about $50, that is around the top of where I would be too. I suspect there will be a lot of people bidding on things and the price will be higher, for a little bit. Watch for it on Ebay - see what someone thinks it might be worth.

Nota_phil
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Re: Can't understand sale price - 1954 modified $5

Post by Nota_phil » Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:51 pm

ewsmith wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:36 pm
I would be interested in getting some opinions on why this bill may have sold for so much - is it something special or did someone pay way too much?

It was for sale in a local online auction. I went to see it and I had planned to bid on it. It is ungraded. I would say it is in uncirculated condition but I couldn't say where on that scale.

I was assuming the value to be about $40 to $50. Including commission it sold for $880 - with tax $1012.
I'm thinking "way too much"

My 3 y.o. Charlton pegs that note (BC-39b) at $50 for UNC; $55 for Choice Unc & $75 for Gem Unc. There were 250,000,000 of the A/S to Z/S prefixes issued. It's very common & nothing special other than in higher grade with nice eye appeal.

If that note were in a PMG or BCS holder & if it was a certified gem (or super gem), I could see it going for $90 to $100 for a PMG UNC67 & $100 to $120 for BCS UNC 66 "Original" (I haven't see many BCS 66's or higher) but $880 is about 10 times higher than I would expect to see an uncertified $5 to reach. Even though the note looks nice I always assume the worse (that it is more likely an AU) when they're not graded (though it could be a nice surprise). A lot of notes were pressed back then.

Seems really excessively sky high - even for a bidding war.

Can you tell us which bidding platform you saw this note listed on?
(the reason I ask is that there are a few which are quite dodgy & who often over grade)
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Techmoe
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Re: Can't understand sale price - 1954 modified $5

Post by Techmoe » Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:45 pm

Selling online for close to 2 decades, mostly on eBay but have dealt with local actions. Recently sold a AU/UNC BC-39bA (RC prefix) for $39, so yeah there’s no logic to why the bill in the original post went for so much. Anyone willing to spend so much must be a collector and a collector will have more knowledge/sense than to pay that much in the first place.

What we’re seeing here doesn’t usually happen on eBay because everything especially communication is monitored by their support. Anything that conflicts with their policy, they will do anything from end the listing to closing the seller or buyer account.

With local/private listings sites things aren’t as ‘strict’. Buyers and sellers have the ability to deal on a more personal level. Most of the time when you see these things and the item/price don’t match the transaction is usually offering ‘more’ than what the listing indicates, based on behind the scenes conversations. Could be anything from the seller not wanting to updating the listing, save on commission based on the listing site, items actually being sold against auction policy………

I’ve seen it before and wanted bring an outside the box perspective

troubadour
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Re: Can't understand sale price - 1954 modified $5

Post by troubadour » Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:54 pm

Techmoe wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:45 pm
With local/private listings sites things aren’t as ‘strict’. Buyers and sellers have the ability to deal on a more personal level. Most of the time when you see these things and the item/price don’t match the transaction is usually offering ‘more’ than what the listing indicates, based on behind the scenes conversations. Could be anything from the seller not wanting to updating the listing, save on commission based on the listing site, items actually being sold against auction policy………

I’ve seen it before and wanted bring an outside the box perspective
i agree with this. but this is, imo, mostly for high-end pieces like a pre-1900 specimen coin and other rarities. and in the grand scheme its negligible, almost insignificant because some buyers often have an unlimited budget

john1000
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Re: Can't understand sale price - 1954 modified $5

Post by john1000 » Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:03 pm

Is the HS prefix rare by any chance ?

bidderdown
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Re: Can't understand sale price - 1954 modified $5

Post by bidderdown » Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:13 pm

how about drug deal as romo or roco NY on e bay Canada at silly prices

ewsmith
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Re: Can't understand sale price - 1954 modified $5

Post by ewsmith » Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:29 am

Nota_phil wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:51 pm
ewsmith wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:36 pm
I would be interested in getting some opinions on why this bill may have sold for so much - is it something special or did someone pay way too much?

It was for sale in a local online auction. I went to see it and I had planned to bid on it. It is ungraded. I would say it is in uncirculated condition but I couldn't say where on that scale.

I was assuming the value to be about $40 to $50. Including commission it sold for $880 - with tax $1012.
I'm thinking "way too much"

My 3 y.o. Charlton pegs that note (BC-39b) at $50 for UNC; $55 for Choice Unc & $75 for Gem Unc. There were 250,000,000 of the A/S to Z/S prefixes issued. It's very common & nothing special other than in higher grade with nice eye appeal.

If that note were in a PMG or BCS holder & if it was a certified gem (or super gem), I could see it going for $90 to $100 for a PMG UNC67 & $100 to $120 for BCS UNC 66 "Original" (I haven't see many BCS 66's or higher) but $880 is about 10 times higher than I would expect to see an uncertified $5 to reach. Even though the note looks nice I always assume the worse (that it is more likely an AU) when they're not graded (though it could be a nice surprise). A lot of notes were pressed back then.

Seems really excessively sky high - even for a bidding war.

Can you tell us which bidding platform you saw this note listed on?
(the reason I ask is that there are a few which are quite dodgy & who often over grade)
The banknote was sold by a local auction company, Key Auctions in Moncton. They are well established and reputable as far as I'm concerned. They didn't provide any estimated grade or description for the bill - just the pictures I posted. It was up to bidders to make that judgment. As I mentioned, I went to see it and it appeared uncirculated to my untrained eye.

The auction company uses the HiBid platform for their online auctions so the bidding process itself is not controlled by the auction company. I have no reason to think that there was anything underhanded in that process but of course I don't know for sure.

As I watched the bidding, several different bidders were involved until it got to about $60, then just two bidders got into a bidding war. So it may be as simple as two people really wanting the bill and just not willing to give in.

I'm fairly new to collecting so I was just curious whether I missed something about this bill that would make it so valuable. Judging from the comments, I don't think I was too far off in my assessment so that's reassuring.

Thanks to everyone who contributed comments. I find this forum is a great way to learn.

Nota_phil
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Re: Can't understand sale price - 1954 modified $5

Post by Nota_phil » Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:16 pm

john1000 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:03 pm
Is the HS prefix rare by any chance ?
-Wrong series - that was the 1937 & the H/S prefix was the last prefix for the $5.00 (Coyne-Towers) though these have been pretty common (over 8,00,000 issued). I've seen lots & not worth the premium seen on Charlton (IMO).
The banknote was sold by a local auction company, Key Auctions in Moncton. They are well established and reputable as far as I'm concerned. They didn't provide any estimated grade or description for the bill - just the pictures I posted. It was up to bidders to make that judgment. As I mentioned, I went to see it and it appeared uncirculated to my untrained eye.
The auction company uses the HiBid platform for their online auctions so the bidding process itself is not controlled by the auction company. I have no reason to think that there was anything underhanded in that process but of course I don't know for sure.
As I watched the bidding, several different bidders were involved until it got to about $60, then just two bidders got into a bidding war. So it may be as simple as two people really wanting the bill and just not willing to give in.
Good to know (thanks).

I've seen a LOT of shill bidding from a North York, ON pawnshop-type of clearing-house hosted by icollector (from Auction Network) which I would never partake in again. I don't trust them! A friend (who collected coins & scrap metal) also monitored the same site & we both noticed many irregularities (we have concluded that there has been plenty of shill bidding so the site which is not to be trusted). Since we both compared notes I've heard a LOT of negative feedback from MANY collectors so I would avoid "icollector/Auction Network" altogether.

Also, I won a modified $5.00 replacement much like the OP note (except it was a replacement) described as "Choice UNC" which was graded as "AU50" by BCS. Most of these icollector/Auction Network online auction houses OVER GRADE by a significant factor.

Lesson learned (fortunately, the note in question did not go into a bidding war so sold for a fraction of the common OP note above & don't feel overly burned).

I suggest not getting sucked into that vortex unless the note is TPG & even then, bid with extreme CAUTION!
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CanuckCoinGirl
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Re: Can't understand sale price - 1954 modified $5

Post by CanuckCoinGirl » Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:30 pm

.... they are not the best. They have some good stuff on occasion, but the way the bidding happens and the way you can win, but then they take other bids after is just BS. If they have a reserve, it should be clear! You should not win on the system and then see the same things the next day because they have a random reserve that isn't transparent.
Bought a couple things, and then just gave up on them. Just not worth it!

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