FYI.
Buy the note, not the holder. There are several examples of this. Probably will show a lot of them soon.
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PMG vs BCS vs PCGS vs the others
PMG vs BCS vs PCGS vs the others
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Re: PMG vs BCS vs PCGS vs the others
Curious...What's the story here. Who had first crack at the note ? Was the note resent for grading in the other graders sleeve ?....Was it shipped raw for re-grading & possibly slightly damaged in transport ? The difference is not encouraging to say the least. BCS is more conservative in grading Canadian notes. PMG standards are probaably not as high. But ironically PMG has a huge TPG market share for banknotes. Much more recognition than BCS will ever have....
Re: PMG vs BCS vs PCGS vs the others
BCS was sold in March 2022.
https://auctions.canadiancoinsandpaperm ... 7/lot/1850
PMG was sold recently on Ebay
https://auctions.canadiancoinsandpaperm ... 7/lot/1850
PMG was sold recently on Ebay
Re: PMG vs BCS vs PCGS vs the others
Bank of Hamilton - #436066 - 5 dollars 1909
Same note, same wear according to pictures.
Sold in 2021. CCCS F-15.
Sold for $900 including premium.

Sold in 2022. PMG VF-25.
Sold for $1,560 including premium.

Examples are plentiful. Can't do the same with coins because no unique number on them.
From the data, it's possible to see which TPG overgrade or undergrade (depends on the standard each TPG use and a collector standard).
Same note, same wear according to pictures.
Sold in 2021. CCCS F-15.
Sold for $900 including premium.

Sold in 2022. PMG VF-25.
Sold for $1,560 including premium.

Examples are plentiful. Can't do the same with coins because no unique number on them.
From the data, it's possible to see which TPG overgrade or undergrade (depends on the standard each TPG use and a collector standard).
Re: PMG vs BCS vs PCGS vs the others
Great examples! i have seen a few threads like these in the past: usually by the anti-certification crowd (which I used to be). I have also read many complaints by dealers about BCS being overly critical. Did I worry he'd be that way with submissions? You bet! But the way I look at it, Steve Bell is doing the collector a favour. It means we can buy some very nice notes for much lower than what we'd pay if the same note was in a PMG holder & we have confidence that the note may actually score higher in the US system.
I submitted two 50 note bulk batches to BCS & felt like "I took a bath" with the results. Most of the notes were sold to me as UNC by some very established collectors I trusted. Too many of them came back super disappointing as AU50, AU55 & UNC60, UNC61 & UNC63. A lot of these grades might be attributed to excessive handling of the note (which I did NOT do). I felt very deflated with my results but I am also pretty confident that several of them (if they were cut out of their holders & re-submitted to PMG) would get much higher assessments. I'm sure some of my "AU58" could score like the *D/O replacement (UNC 65) b/c we know PMG is slacker (less critical).
I also had several modern Birds/original Journeys come back UNC64 (or less) which I'm pretty certain would come back as UNC66 or higher with PMG. But at the moment, I really don't care (I like that they're sealed & won't develop any issues down the road). I enjoy them in their BCS holders & just try to leave it at that. I'm also very gun-shy of Legacy notes & some PCGS/CCCS seem too generous too. I guess the bottom line is that certifiers are human & grading is very subjective.
I submitted two 50 note bulk batches to BCS & felt like "I took a bath" with the results. Most of the notes were sold to me as UNC by some very established collectors I trusted. Too many of them came back super disappointing as AU50, AU55 & UNC60, UNC61 & UNC63. A lot of these grades might be attributed to excessive handling of the note (which I did NOT do). I felt very deflated with my results but I am also pretty confident that several of them (if they were cut out of their holders & re-submitted to PMG) would get much higher assessments. I'm sure some of my "AU58" could score like the *D/O replacement (UNC 65) b/c we know PMG is slacker (less critical).
I also had several modern Birds/original Journeys come back UNC64 (or less) which I'm pretty certain would come back as UNC66 or higher with PMG. But at the moment, I really don't care (I like that they're sealed & won't develop any issues down the road). I enjoy them in their BCS holders & just try to leave it at that. I'm also very gun-shy of Legacy notes & some PCGS/CCCS seem too generous too. I guess the bottom line is that certifiers are human & grading is very subjective.
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Re: PMG vs BCS vs PCGS vs the others
Great post. Thanks Lightw4re & Nota_phil. Yes, it would appear that BCS (Steve Bell) has much higher grading standards. But I have to address the elephant in the room. Last time I was at BCS in Kitchener, BCS was a one man show (Steve). Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think things have changed. If so, we basically have one person only with very high standards offering one opinion. At the same time, perhaps PMG is a bit lax in grading standards. I am not qualified enough to harshly criticize either. At the end of the day, you have to judge for yourself as to who does a more accurate grade. But, as I mentioned before, like it or not, PMG is known & accepted around the world.
Outside of Canada, BCS is not very well known. No matter what your opinion, you will capture a much larger audience when selling in PMG holder....Of course you can just keep the notes raw & enjoy the hell out of them !
cheers
Outside of Canada, BCS is not very well known. No matter what your opinion, you will capture a much larger audience when selling in PMG holder....Of course you can just keep the notes raw & enjoy the hell out of them !
cheers
Re: PMG vs BCS vs PCGS vs the others
-yes, this is true as far as I know too. I asked him if he certifies World & he does not do that: so it's unlikely that BCS will ever rise to the level of many of the other TPG's. Honestly, after several conversations with him (& attending his workshop on grading), I feel we're lucky he opened up shop & provides the service he does.we basically have one person only with very high standards offering one opinion.
Word to the wise:
buy the note, not the holder
There may be minor differences between the IBNS Grading Standards versus Paper Money Guarantee:
IBNS:
https://www.theibns.org/joomla/index.ph ... mitstart=1
PMG:
https://www.pmgnotes.com/paper-money-gr ... ing-scale/
but the first is an international collector organization while the 2nd entity is the largest business which has certified millions of US & World notes. There are bound to be errors when it is based on inspections by people.
Here's a thread started by a collector who calls Third Party Grading TPG holder, an "entombed" note & compares British examples of them with "free range" (uncertified) British notes:
https://www.papermoneyforum.com/post/en ... 1341681572
Here's a thread which discusses "Certified vs Raw"
https://www.papermoneyforum.com/post/ce ... 1341362153
And another by a collector who "crosses" (from PCGS to PMG) or will even cut the note out of the holder and then re-submit. This isn't a cheap practice folks!
https://www.papermoneyforum.com/post/up ... 1341536052
Join the journey: check out Notaphilyc Culture:
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